Exploring Sustainability and Digital Transformation With Andi Orzehoski From LyondellBasell

Jim (00:06):

What are some other, I would call change management must-haves that you go to?

Andi (00:10):

So, we talked about this a little bit before but really understanding your business need at the end of the day. Right, you know it's overarching, it's probably part of why you're doing the project that you're doing but what is your business need and what is the value that you're trying to achieve? Just rooting yourself in that at the end of the day.

Jim (00:26):

Welcome to What If? So What? The podcast where we explore what's possible with digital and discover how to make it real in your business. I'm your host, Jim Hertzfeld, and we get s**t done by asking digital leaders the right questions: what if, so what, and, most importantly, now what? Hey everyone, I'm excited for you to meet Andi Orzehowski. She is with a company you may not have heard of, but you have probably used a lot of their products. Might be using one of them right now, Andi, welcome to the podcast.

Andi (00:53):

Thank you so much, Jim. I'm really glad to be here.

Jim (00:55):

So, Andi, you work at LyondellBasell, and we kind of shorthand it LYB, yeah, but tell us what that company is first and foremost, and we'll get into kind of what you're doing there.

Andi (01:05):

Yeah, so LyondellBasell. It's a very hard name to pronounce as well. We get Lyondell, LyondellBasell, Basell, but LyondellBasell, shorthand known as LYB. We're a global leader in the chemical industry. We are also the world's largest producer of polymers and a leader in polyolefin technologies. So, for most people, myself included, when I first joined this company, what is that? Right, I would have to connect you with one of our chemical engineers to go into all of the specifics, but basically, you'll hear our purpose. Our purpose is creating solutions for everyday sustainable living, or you'll hear us talk about solutions for a better tomorrow, and I think that's more representative of what we do. Our products are in the products that you're using every single day. They are in applications such as transportation, food safety, clean water, sustainable healthcare, right? That's how our products are working and essentially making a difference. So, if you pick up your cell phone, if you go into a grocery store and there's food packaging, if you are sitting in your car and you're looking at your seats, there's probably a bit of LyondellBasell product in those end-use products that you're interacting with on a day to day.

I personally work in our sustainability and corporate affairs department, so our focus is more so on how we are helping to create as a company that, yes, is in the global chemical industry. How are we helping to create a circular economy and produce a more low carbon economy?

Jim (02:26):

In a circular economy—if we don't know this term, it's relatively new to me as well. It's sort of like taking a material and a product and goes beyond recycling, right? It's sort of reactivating, reconstituting things.

Andi (02:38):

End-to-end use, right from the beginning, when it's part of a feedstock, basically where it goes into create let's say, a plastic, and all the way through recycling and how do you reuse it again. So having a longer term and shelf life, basically for plastics and other materials, right.

Jim (02:51):

And so how many times you get the joke from The Graduate, plastics? You know that famous line in The Graduate? You know it's a great film, you know.

Andi (02:57):

I haven't heard that one in a while, but I did see that third one.

Jim (03:00):

Yeah, it's probably in the LYB, you know, pantheon. You know, yeah, please don't bring up that line. You know we've heard it enough, but I love businesses like this. I love industries and brands like this because they are kind of what makes the world go around.

I've always thought that every innovation probably comes from some like hard science right, material science and, I think, from a digital perspective, a marketing, a CX perspective. People don't necessarily relate to, you know, a company like LYB as a digital company. I know we work with some other large brands, manufacturing companies, and energy companies, and the reality is like, digital is a component of many things you do, and it's just how these companies operate, sort of behind the scenes. You know your role. I think your formal title is Director of Brand, Content and Digital Communication. That's a lot. So maybe for a lot of people can kind of connect the dots between these three things, but they also maybe 10, maybe 15 years ago seemed very unrelated. So how is the profession, how do you think the industry has changed that require brand, and content, and digital to work together? What's sort of driving that from your perspective or from LYB's perspective?

Andi (04:07):

It's a great question. So, first of all, I think this terminology is right brand content and digital brand content and digital team. It's definitely more of an internal vernacular choice and that's because, and I think we're going to talk about some of this topic later, but we wanted people to know where to go to find us because this is a relative well, it's actually a brand new team. I've been building it over the past year, year and a half, through other groups that already existed and some that didn't within the organization. So, the intention was, if you need to know who to reach out to for brand or for creative services, assistance with your graphics, your multimedia production, your photography, right?

You know where to go. You're looking for our content manager and you know who know with our podcast, you know where to go. If you're thinking about our digital tools like social media and our website, there's a clear place to go, because when you don't have a team and then all of a sudden you do, people are like, well, what do you do? But I think it more so aligns with you know, brand and digital experience overall is what we're trying to achieve. I think we're at the beginning stages, perhaps, of a digital marketing team again with more of a corporate and brand focus. So that's really you know a little bit of the background of the team. But why are these three things so important? I think, to the overall customer experience or stakeholder experience, right.

If you're an investor, you're a talent you're coming in, and I think a lot of it is that you know we're a B2B company, which means that for us a lot of that brand experience is built in the interaction with the salesperson, the actual product, the quality, the price, etc.

However, if you're not considering the digital interpretation of your brand, even though we're not a digital company, you are falling behind.

So that's where these three things, I think, really intersect. When you have people who are thinking about the actual visual expression of your brand, the words and the choices and the platforms that you're using to tell your story and how you're telling your story, and then the platforms that you're telling those stories on right your website, et cetera, that's where you get a lot of synergy, a lot of efficiency. That's where you're able to have channels, I think, that, at the end of the day, are sort of a single source of truth for your customer. I can go in and I know who LYB is, why they're here, what they're doing, how to interact with their product, and I think, in a very oversaturated digital space right now, that's really key. So it's been a fun team to build out. I think we have a lot of potential, but I did mention the website, and that's something that we're actually working with Perficient and members of your team to help build out, and they've been helping us think through some of this too. So, it's been a really cool journey thus far.

Jim (06:24):

Cool. I kind of imagine a lot of complex B2B sales or journeys that probably long journeys, right, I don't think these are probably not quick. Maybe I'm wrong here, but gosh, I need some. I need a special polymer; I need it tomorrow. Maybe that happens, but I'm imagining. You know, you have a lot of chemists and scientists and they're talking to engineers on the customer side, and these are very complex discussions, very thoughtful. You've got to help them make sense of it. Am I right here? Even the scientists and engineers are again relying on digital channels, digital content. You know again long sales cycles where they have to piece a lot of things together. Is it fair to say that that's part of the interaction?

Andi (07:06):

I think that it's a very complex product that we're trying to sell, and we have complex businesses and systems that are on either side and we do have, you know, dedicated sales team and such. So, they're going to use the website in one way to get the information that they need and they want, you know, to the customer, etc. Again, it is more built on that relationship and that history and such.

But digital tools can still really help in that process where you can bring the customer along, they can leverage technology, they can get information that previously wasn't available if we're dealing with crimes and moving ourselves forward On the other side is you have brand owners right on the other side is you have brand owners right who are looking more for sustainable solutions, for information about how LyondellBasell could help them to meet their sustainability targets, etc. So that's another use for the website and that we need to account for. So, I think it is a complex sales process cycle, having a purpose-built website that thinks about all of the various pieces of that journey and the customers who are using the website and our other key stakeholders is really critical.

Jim (08:06):

So, you bring something up. That I think is interesting to me is you're trying to think of everything, right. You're trying to think of all the ways, all the scenarios, and you have to use a lot of imagination. Maybe there's a lot of research, but ultimately, you're really getting to know your customer. If I'm building empathy, one of the things I've seen is we say we want to know our customers, but sometimes we're challenged by what we learn. I work with a lot of customers say well, I know my customer, I'm out there every day, and then we do research, and they come back with this revelation or oh, I didn't know that. And it can be kind of disconcerting, like who moved my cheese, kind of moments. I know you've been a big champion of change management in your career. Why do you think a change management competency or approach is so important to these kinds of needs, this kind of customer intimacy that you're looking for?

Andi (08:53):

So, I think you bring up a really good point about when you open a can of worms, so to speak. Right, you've opened this can of worms and you think you're going to find earthworms, and then you find some sort of other worm instead and it's scary and it's destructive. You find snakes. But I think what's important, though, in terms of your next steps, right, is you've already decided at some point to open this can of worms. Right, there was a reason, there was a business need. There's something that you're trying to achieve right In the world of digital transformation and I was listening to one of your podcasts the other day and perhaps you can remind me who said this but your guest was talking about digital transformation versus innovation, right, so with innovation, it's really all these next steps and interesting things that you're trying to do to get ahead of the curve. But a lot of us are doing digital transformation work, really to catch up to make sure that our customers have what they need, that we're meeting a business objective, et cetera. So, you've already decided that you need to do it. There's a business objective, there's an established business need, so at that point, it doesn't really matter what you hear. You need to go with what you hear. You need to move forward. So, if you're going to get stuck in that block of you know, I thought it was X, Y, and Z so I'm still going to go down that path. You're not going to meet that business need. You're not going to move the needle at all.

However, oftentimes what you hear when you get those snakes instead of those worms does not align with your organizational structure. How you do things. You know you're going to have people on the other side who really are resistant to change. I mean there's a whole theory of change management which we're getting to that's built around people's resistance to change and how it can be one of the most, I'd say, critical components of your overall project strategy, because it can also be one of the biggest risks if it's not done appropriately.

So, I think why it's so critical to brands is because you are trying to achieve business objectives. You put a ton of money behind it. You've heard what you need to do. If you don't do those things, you're not going to get there. But you have this whole group of people internally and externally who along the way could really deter your progress, stop it overall and lead it from turning into what was supposed to be an adoption strategy that leads to increased value, to a project that falls flat. So, investing in that change management, I think takes it from an idea to a reality and helps you realize that value.

Jim (10:57):

Yeah, I love the way you put that, because I've seen projects where we had the smartest people, the best strategists, the best developers, you know the best. Everything was on time; everything was on budget. You know, hooray, we throw a party and then, yeah, there's resistance, right, nobody's using it, nobody's adopting him. Hey, maybe it was a bad idea in the first place, but maybe, you know, we didn't quite consider the adoption curve.

Andi (11:18):

Well, that's one of my favorite parts, Jim, about my job today, right, is that I work with and I should share a little bit more about myself. So, I found myself into this kind of weird and wacky digital space, you know, a few years ago. I'm loving it. I'm learning so much. I think it's so relevant for how we do business today. I think the business today and especially the business of tomorrow, it doesn't exist without digital. So, I'm so glad that I'm here, but I consider myself a communicator by trade.

Before I came into here, I ran global communications so I really approach so much of what I do from a communications mindset and embracing the power of communication and also you know all the things that communication can do and then the things that a lack of communication can unfortunately undo.

So, I love my job because I work with these kinds of people that you're talking about on a day-to-day and Perficient within my three teams that I run brand content, digital, and they're experts in what they do. They care so much about the quality of what they're pulling together and deliverable, but they're very deliverable. Focus and one of my big coaching moments and I think also coming from that communications background is it's so great that you've done all of this, but if you haven't truly communicated the WIFM right, the what's in it for me, to other individuals that you're trying to get on board with your project, it could be for naught. So, if you haven't communicated the why you haven't made sure that they're on board, which is obviously all part of change management, again you risk it falling flat. You risk all of this work being for nothing, it being, I think, more of an output rather than outcome.

We talk about that a lot and my organization is transferring from output work to outcome work. What's really driving the needle?

Jim (12:47):

That is great. I recently discovered that phrase myself. It's a great line. Yeah, you know, that's where my output style comes because it changes the mindset. You know. You mentioned what's in it. For me, again, that's great advice for anyone. Like I said, this is the greatest code. No one will ever see, but why does it matter? How does it help anyone else?

Andi (13:08):

So, besides changing the mindset from output to outcome, or understanding your internal customers and stakeholders just in your everyday work by addressing their what's in it for me questions, what are some other I would call change management must-haves that you go to so we talked about this a little bit before but really understanding your business need at the end of the day right, you know it's overarching, it's probably part of why you're doing the project that you're doing but what is your business need and what is the value that you're trying to achieve? Just rooting yourself in that at the end of the day, because all of these change management activities are going to root up to you, achieving that need and achieving that value at the end of the day. I also noted about organizational design. Right, the road to change management is paved with good intentions, but it doesn't always work and isn't always purpose-built for your organizational design. So you really have to understand that, know that, know what you're working with and the barriers to change, potentially obstacles. There's going to be certain people within your organization or outside of your organization that this change is going to supremely affect and you know how they're working now versus how they're going to be working in the future. And how do we account for that?

The third piece of it or I think, once you've set the stage with those two items is what I was talking about with communication. So, having been a former communicator, if you do not have a strategic communications plan, an effective communications plan, if you do not have someone that you can work with, who can craft those communications for you, you really could miss the mark. If you are familiar with change management theories, one of them is the ADCAR model. It's part of ProSci and what the ADCAR model stands for is awareness, desire, knowledge, ability and reinforcement. And when you think about it, someone needs to have awareness, desire, and knowledge to change. How does that happen? Right, you communicate and sharing the purpose behind what you're doing and why you're doing. It helps with that awareness; it helps fuel that desire. You know it increases that knowledge. I was thinking about the you know where's the cheese moment that you were talking about right.

You have the opportunity and these communications plants. So, you have someone who really doesn't like cheddar cheese, and that's where we're moving the cheese. You know. You can tell them, you know I really like American, well, this is why cheddar is great and I'm going to help you find it. And then you're going to have other people who are intrinsically motivated to find the cheese because they already like it and they want to and such. But that communication kind of helps you get your late adopters and such on board. So, I'd say a communications plan is key. And then the second piece of it is that ability and reinforcement and I think that's the training, right. The training and the development. Projects are all created differently. There are some things, like you know, with us launching the new website, a website's pretty easy tool to use. However, there's other technology that may be now be connected to how we've decided to build out the website, where we're going to have to do more in-depth training or make sure that, you know, people within the organization have the ability to use it, to sell it, to work with our customers, et cetera, to leverage it the right way. So, a lot of that work, I think, is done in part with the business, it's done with IT, it's done with HR. But building that kind of planning into your overarching change management plan is really important and keeping in mind that I think people have to hear something between an average of two to three to seven times to remember it yeah, something like that yeah.

Something like that, right? So, you, just you need to keep communicating, keep giving opportunities for training, for development for reinforcement.

Those are sort of my critical pieces I would say.

Jim (16:17):

Some people I've worked with, Andi, need it like 15 or 20 times. I'm just, yeah, we don't tell.

Andi (16:21):

Especially, though, just send some empathy their way though. How much communication are they wading through? Right, Jim, like they're in there and they're okay. I've got this team's message. Now I've got this on Slack oh my goodness, I have to answer this email, and I've got a ping coming through monday.com, whatever it is, you know. And so, I think emails don't necessarily carry the same weight that they used to, right? There's so much information coming at you, how do you break through that?

Jim (16:45):

I just wrote an article on LinkedIn called Bring Back the Memo, and I actually go into that. So, I'm glad you brought it, go check it out, Bring Back the Memo. But yeah, it's the overload, right, it's like too much is too much and yeah, I do try to be sympathetic to those situations. So one last question, one piece of advice, and I'm thinking of all the people out there who are maybe on a project and they're doing their thing and they're deliverable you know it's coming due or they're just trying to get the cold team together, or maybe they're on the receiving end of this project and they're saying to themselves, wow, I wish that project had some change management discipline, because I'm afraid of what's going to happen next. So, for the folks listening, if there was kind of one piece of advice or one thing you could ask someone to do, even a little bite-sized thing, what would you give them to do to kind of bring some of this thinking to their business or to their project?

Andi (17:33):

So can I give two bite-sized things. Or maybe one big thing and one bite-sized. So, my bite-sized the easiest thing to do when you're thinking about change management is to, if you don't have it, to find a resource to help you with it, Whether that's through an outside consultant or having conversations about how to build change management capabilities into your own pieces of the business.

I know that some businesses do have change management teams, but I think it's hard to sometimes weave them into kind of these more complicated business models. So that's my nugget there in terms of you know, if you can't do it, pay someone to do it, invest in doing it to do it right. But the second piece that I think that you know, aside from reading about change management and stuff that people can really lean into, which is so simple but perhaps not something we're accustomed to do on the day-to-day, is think about human psychology. At the end of the day, with change management, human psychology is what drives successful adoption, and it's, again, it's overly simple, but it's true.

You know who needs to know this? I wish I could tell my younger self this: go into every project. Who needs to know this? Why and how, every communication or something I'm thinking about sending, a meeting I'm setting up, who needs to know this why and how? There's so much that you can already start to do. Yes, there's a lot of change and pieces that are going to evolve and kind of come through along the way.

But if you start thinking about who needs to know this, why, and how you can facilitate adoption, because what you're doing is you're including people in the conversation. And what are you doing? We're social preachers. We don't like rejection. We don't like being left out. If you reject, if you leave people out, they don't feel happy, and guess what? They can be your biggest barriers to adoption. So, bring them along on the ride with some barriers. Right, we don't want too many cooks in the kitchen but just making sure that there's awareness that you're having those conversations and that you've brought in the people that need to be at the table. I think that's my key takeaway.

Jim (19:19):

I think that's a great reminder. So, in this podcast, we brought together psychologists, engineers, scientists, marketers, and consultants, so I think we covered all the ground. Andi, thanks so much for sharing your history, your wisdom, and maybe some hard lessons learned, and thanks for being on the podcast.

Andi (19:37):

Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for having me. It's been a great time.

Joe (19:42):

You've been listening to What If? So What? A digital strategy podcast from Perficient with Jim Hertzfeld. We want to thank our Perficient colleagues JD Norman and Rick Bauer for our music. Subscribe to the podcast, and don't miss a single episode. Thanks for listening.